Unmasking Neurodivergence, Cognitive Disabilities and Building Resilience Through Play with Sheri Jay

In this episode, Mary is joined by Sheri Jay, a specialized life coach who transforms the lives of neurodivergent individuals through her unique blend of neuroscience expertise and lived experience. Drawing from her own journey with brain injury, anxiety, and invisible disability, Sheri has developed innovative coaching methods that help clients embrace their strengths and thrive authentically.

The conversation explores the profound intersection of neurodivergence and menopause, revealing how hormonal changes can unmask previously hidden traits like ADHD and autism in women. Sheri discusses the challenges of late diagnosis, the exhausting process of masking, and how menopause often becomes "the great reveal" when coping mechanisms no longer work. She shares her compassionate approach to navigate this complex landscape with tools that build confidence, overcome imposter syndrome and perfectionism, and create new neural pathways.

Sheri's remarkable journey from high-powered corporate executive to passionate advocate began with a life-changing stroke and brain injury that left her disabled for years. Rather than accepting limitations, she used neuroscience principles to create new neural pathways, eventually founding a coaching practice that serves everyone from athletes to executives. Her story demonstrates the power of resilience and the importance of embracing what makes us uniquely capable.

Connect:

• Sheri Jay's website and coaching services: sherijay.ca
• Instagram: @sherijaycoaching
• YouTube Channel: @sherijaycoaching

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Sheri Jay: so I say, let's celebrate the fact we have imposter syndrome, right? Elvis Presley had imposter syndrome. He used to, vomit and his legs would shake before he went on stage, but he turned those shaking legs into a trademark. And look at the gifts Elvis gave to the world and Oprah. You know, you just go through the list.

Everyone has imposter syndrome. So it's the ability to recognize this is what's happening in my brain right now. And then looking back at all the wonderful things you did to get to where you are today.

[00:00:35] Mary Lee: That was a clip from my upcoming guest, Sheri J, and in this candid conversation, Sheri shares a remarkable journey from a career in corporate Canada through life-changing health challenges to becoming a passionate advocate and coach for neurodivergent individuals, drawing on her expertise in neuroscience and her own lived experience with invisible disability.

[00:01:00] Sheri discusses the unique challenges faced by women navigating menopause, especially those with neurodivergent traits or brain injuries, and how late diagnosis and masking can impact confidence as well as wellbeing. You will discover how Sheri's innovative coaching methods, including solution-focused techniques and creative tools like the Allego Serious play, help clients embrace their strengths, overcome imposter syndrome, and build new pathways to joy and fulfillment.

Our conversation also explores the intersection of neurodivergence menopause and workplace dynamics, offering practical insights for individuals and organizations. Seeking greater inclusion and belonging. So whether you're seeking personal growth, navigating change, or supporting others through the transition, this episode promises actionable wisdom and heartfelt encouragement from a very [00:02:00] passionate leader, Sheri, about empowering women to thrive at this space in life.

But before we begin, here's something you need to know about Sheri. Sheri Jay is a life coach who specializes in working with neurodivergent individuals, and she draws upon her own experiences with anxiety and imposter syndrome and the impact of a stroke and brain injury. Sheri is active in professional disability networks and emphasizes the importance of belonging, especially in the military.

And corporate environments where masking neurodivergent traits is so very common. She has a unique coaching approach, which is highly specialized, highly individualized, and she meets her clients. Right where they are at addressing each and everyone's unique goals and situation. Along with the Lego series play, Sheri also incorporates the Principles U Personality assessment to celebrate individual strengths and improve team dynamics.

[00:03:00] Her clients range from athletes to executives, and she notes that issues like imposter syndrome and perfectionism are completely universal. Often exacerbated during the life transitions such as menopause. You can learn more about Sheri's coaching and offerings on her website@sherijayca, and you can find her on Instagram at Sheri J Coaching.

Sheri also has a YouTube channel, Sheri Jay Coaching. All of those links will be in the show notes. Please join me in welcoming Sheri to the Menopause Disruptor Podcast. 

Well welcome Sheri to the Menopause Disruptor Podcast. We are gonna have an interesting conversation about executive coaching. So first of all, welcome. So happy to have you here. Thank you. So happy to be here. So Sheri and I met out on the street one day. You were out visiting in the Ox Valley, and it was because of our dogs.

I had my, my grand baby, my little dash [00:04:00] out Lenny. And, uh, he took a fond liking to the dog you were with. And lo and behold, we were just attracted to each other's energy and started talking about this world of menopause and the work that we're doing. You are doing some really interesting work, particularly for neurodivergent conditions.

Before we get there, tell us all about your backstory, Sheri. 

[00:04:25] Sheri Jay: Well, my backstory, uh. I was gonna start my backstory with working in corporate Canada, but my backstory goes back even further. I had done a degree in psychology, loved neuroscience, wanted to pursue a master's in PhD. Didn't follow my passion and went into business.

And then I went into a corporate Canada job for 12, 12 years in the investment industry. And I. Virtually left on, on a wheelchair. I had a chemical injury and a brain. I had a stroke. I had a brain injury. I became disabled for a number of years. And, um, and then I ran a [00:05:00] dog walking business for, for 20 odd years.

The forest was super healthy for me walking and not being in, in the corporate environment. Pandemic happened. Everybody stayed home with their dogs and I had to pivot again, and someone actually suggested. Life coaching or executive coaching? Had I ever thought of it and I hadn't, but I looked into it and my PA about passion has always been to help people.

I'm a, I'm a hyper empathy, hyper empathetic. I became a life coach and then. I went back into neuroscience and specialized in the neuroscience of coaching, so back full circle to my passion. And through that I have, I'm neurodivergent, I have family members who are neurodivergent, whether that's, you know, autism, A DHD, brain injury, the neurodivergent umbrella is quite large and discovered one that I have a passion and love coaching people who are neurodivergent and also that I.

I'm really good at it. There's great [00:06:00] results. So I call myself a coach for people with busy brains and that when your brain is not, so sometimes our brain isn't our best friend, right? Sometimes our brain gets in our way, whether that's negative self-talk, anxiety, perfectionism, imposter syndrome. And I've lived with that my whole life.

Anxiety, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, and that's how I got to where I am today. Wow. 

[00:06:28] Mary Lee: That is quite the journey. And I should say, because this is my neurodivergent brain to go by Sheri or Sheri Jay, 

[00:06:36] Sheri Jay: I go by both. My last name is Jay, and it goes so well together that some people just call me Sheri Jay.

[00:06:43] Mary Lee: I think that's another reason why I love your energy, because I get called Mary Lee all the time when in fact, Lee is my last name. But it's such a beautiful term of endearment. I had to ask because I went to your website and I, I just love your website. Full of details, big font too, for people who do [00:07:00] have neurodivergent traits, big font helps.

Yes. That aside Sheri, Sheri Jay. I'm really quite interested, you told us, you shared with us though, that you have Neurodivergency as well, and within your family member as well. When did you finally feel like this was an underserved, vulnerable population that needed to be better, well served so that they could thrive in their lives?

[00:07:29] Sheri Jay: Well, it's interesting. It's all part of, we call season of life and part of that journey I hid my disability for so long 'cause it was embarrassing. I had come from an athletic background, well, you know, corporate Canada type A personalities. I was a mountain biker. My partner of 28 years was in the professional road cycling scene.

I was around a lot of strong people and suddenly I was. Overnight disabled. And, uh, people were uncomfortable with that. You know, they were, they don't like [00:08:00] thinking about the fact they might end up there, but many people who are disabled are not born disabled. So I spent a long time hiding my disability or minimizing my disability.

And in my coaching journey, as I said, I discovered I just love helping this pop, this population, which I'm a part of, but I became part of a professional disability network called Profound, and started working with leaders and people who. Multiple disabilities, whether it's neurodivergence, blind, deaf, you know, wheelchair users.

And had so many people say to me, thank you for speaking up about your invisible disability. 'cause it gives me the courage to do the same. And I came to a place. So I find it interesting that I'm late, late in life, really, that I've discovered my passion for work. But I've also discovered, to stand up for who I am.

And I am a person who lives with an invisible cognitive disability. And I had that with my website. People said, don't put on [00:09:00] your website that you, know, you've had a stroke and you have a brain injury. Who would want a coach who has a brain injury? But it doesn't mean I'm not capable, and it doesn't mean my clients aren't capable.

My brain, I needed some help to create new neural pathways after my stroke. I had trouble retrieving words. I used to watch Jeopardy. You wouldn't know by how fast I speak now, but I couldn't retrieve my words and I would watch Jeopardy every day to retrieve my words. And so neuroscience is creating new neuro pathways.

And so I created new neuro pathways. Book stroke of insight. Woman discusses this as well, that had a, a stroke created new neural pathways. And rejuvenated my brain. 'cause I had doctors say, you're a disabled, there's nothing more we can do for you. You know, stay at home and stay in bed.

And that's not an op, that wasn't an option for me. No. So here I, 

[00:09:52] Mary Lee: wow. No, it's quite interesting, Sheri, that so far some of the top download episodes of the [00:10:00] Menopause Disruptive Podcast have dealt with neurodivergent traits, such as my episode on A DHD. One on autism, then I did a personal one on PTSD and trauma.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then the, there's been an episode on the cross-section between NEURODIVERGENCE and menopause and A DHD. When that comes to the forefront, that was an amazing episode as well, and I realized we're onto something. In my journey through the menopause doula and menopause education, and now coaching, I've come to realize too that we could have had.

These injuries or these conditions and learn those neural pathways as you speak of quite cleverly to find a way to circumnavigate around the illness or the condition or the trait. As one of my previous guest calls, it's just a trait, like blue eyes or brown eyes. Um, but we become very clever at finding those new pathways [00:11:00] and then all of a sudden menopause comes along.

With estrogen as the great protector. It's no longer there and the veil is lifted and Lavo la we are facing things that we are thinking, like for me in particular, dyslexia. I thought I had this in the bag years ago, and now as a communicator too, career in communications, you need to know your words, but all of a sudden it was coming back, but not just a little bit.

It was tenfold and I still could not see it. I catch things all the time. Why can't I see this? So have you discovered, or, or when you're working with your clients, a lot of people are now facing this, confronting this maybe for the first time of a condition that has been there maybe before with even without even having an injury.

And tell us a little bit about that experience with working with those clients, with the, the nuanced conditions, complexity with the neurodivergent trait in [00:12:00] menopause. 

[00:12:01] Sheri Jay: Well, first of all, there's a lot of late diagnosis, particularly in women for Autism and A DHD Neurodivergence that people live their entire lives.

Masking and trying to fit into society, which comes at a great cost, right? Great energy cost. And they can often do it un until maybe it's menopause, where they can no longer do it. So the late diagnosis for women is huge. So sometimes you don't even know you have it, your whole life 'cause you're masking and trying to fit in.

But the amount of anxiety and stress that goes along with having to mask that is massive and then hitting menopause and everything gets that much harder. So the stress and anxiety goes through the roof and that's one thing I help my clients with is. Dealing with a late diagnosis and then [00:13:00] dealing with understanding what's happening in your body and brain when you're under stress and how to manage it.

[00:13:05] Mary Lee: Wow. So let's talk about that a little bit. I would really like to understand more about your unique coaching program. Maybe walk us through a little scenario of how you meet your clients exactly where they're at, so that they can embrace their situation and have a little bit more courage to, to address it and to feel like they have empowerment to move forward.

[00:13:30] Sheri Jay: Well, I first of all meet them where e every person's gonna come with a different goal. And and every coaching session is custom to what they want in the moment. And whether it's coming and wanting something in, let's say it's an executive, executive coaching, uh, it's related to work, but it always ends up coming back to who you actually are, right.

And. What's going on in your brain? So especially with someone who's neurodivergent to actually under, [00:14:00] you know, some clients come to me who have A DHD and they've been beating themselves up for years 'cause they think there's something wrong with them. And when they understand what's actually happening in their brain and this is common to everyone with a DHD, it's a huge sense of relief.

Right. And then we usually start with how dealing with anxiety and stress. Right. And then moving, moving forward to to create what they've always wanted to create and sometimes fast process. And sometimes it's slow. It depends on every individual. 

[00:14:35] Mary Lee: So I was just gonna ask in different individuals, in different vocations, for example, you work with athletes to corporate leaders.

How does the approach differ? Depending on what environment that they're in or where they're trying to excel in, whether it's sports or in career. 

[00:14:53] Sheri Jay: And whether you're an athlete or an executive, it's actually pretty much the same. [00:15:00] So, when you're talking about mental performance and you can be an executive at the highest level mm-hmm.

And you might have a confidence issue and you can be an athlete at the highest level and you have a confidence issue. And it could be you know, I'm going to a bike race in Europe for the first time, imposter syndrome. Ah. I'm an executive. I just got a new promotion, a little bit of imposter syndrome.

So it's actually exactly the same. So how do we 

[00:15:28] Mary Lee: deal with imposter syndrome? Because I know that this is going to hit a real chord with many of the listeners, uh, particularly those professionals and those high performing, high achieve, achieving women who are now in menopause at the peak of their career and are looking for that next advancement, that next promotion, and they're gonna step into something.

Pretty powerful that they've been working their whole career for, and then all of a sudden, one of the things that happens with menopause is our confidence goes plunges. So how do [00:16:00] you address imposter syndrome? 

[00:16:02] Sheri Jay: Well, first of all. Adam Grant, who wrote the book, hidden Potential. I love Doctor. He's one of my favorite neuroscientists, says, everybody has imposter syndrome unless you're a sociopath or a psychopath.

So I say, let's celebrate the fact we have imposter syndrome, right? Elvis Presley had imposter syndrome. He used to, vomit and his legs would shake before he went on stage, but he turned those shaking legs into a trademark. And look at the gifts Elvis gave to the world and Oprah. You know, you just go through the list.

Everyone has imposter syndrome. So it's the ability to recognize this is what's happening in my brain right now. And then looking back at all the wonderful things you did to get to where you are today. Right. And then on an individual level I work with, it's gonna be different questions for every person, but to tap back into [00:17:00] that confidence and look at, I'm a solution focus coach, so let's say I said, okay, Mary, what's your related to this?

What's your confidence right now between one and 10, with one being not at all and 10 fully and completely, and you answered five, I would start asking you questions like, what would a six look like? Oh yeah. What would be different if you were at a six, both in what you're doing and how you're feeling, and you paint me that vision and picture and then we go to a seven and then maybe let's go to an eight.

What would that look like and what, what would be different? And then based on what you've telling me, we would tap into some of those things that you can action. 

[00:17:40] Mary Lee: That is great. So the vision casting by allowing the client to actually imagine that what they want is entirely possible by sort of planting it in their mind right now and to forecast Exactly.

Oh, okay. This is what it I could possibly be achieving or be at. I'd [00:18:00] love that idea. 

[00:18:01] Sheri Jay: Yes. And I do with some clients, I do guided meditation. Oh. So in this case, I would probably use a meditation called The Truth is honestly, I, and it would be about 12 minutes where they are guided and they go inside and then they journal and they would come out.

The truth is I'm confident and confident, and this is why. Yeah, 

[00:18:26] Mary Lee: this is beautiful. Um, with the Love your brain. So I became a Love Your brain yoga teacher. Took my level one and then I said, I love this too much. I wanna go on to become a facilitator. Just completed that training. I've been offering some classes now very much online neurodivergent.

Individuals can certainly benefit from it, but the focus has always been on those with a brain injury, a traumatic brain injury and one that's acquired rather than something that has come from as a result of a condition that they're already. Might be born [00:19:00] with perhaps, but this would be from somebody who's received it from a blow to the head or possibly even stroke.

And so we have been learning the power of that positive affirmation. By that intention. Always make it in the present. I am not. As in you're hoping for it in the future, but you are right now you have the goal. But right now, no matter what the situation you are, I am sort of thing. So I found that to be very impactful, very powerful.

And I was hoping, Sheri, that you could maybe enlighten us with why that taking things to the present right now, what? What happens in the wiring in the brain when we speak in the positive present tense? 

[00:19:45] Sheri Jay: Well, I think people often say I should or I could which is. Very much extrinsic value. So a lot of people, which that's what I, when I say that I went on to do a business degree when I wanted to do neuroscience that [00:20:00] was extrinsic family pressure, like businesses is where you should go.

So when you live from the I shoulds you're not living in integrity. You're not living in alignment with what your true values are, right? So when it's like I am, then you're tapping into who you want to be. That's why that is so important. 

[00:20:21] Mary Lee: Wow, that's incredible. Very curious. See on your website, once again, I was.

Scouring to find out some interesting facts about this coaching technique and I came across your tool, Lego Serious play and we, you had actually mentioned that to me when we met each other for first time on the street. So tell us about how integrating this tool enhances the coaching process, especially for individuals with a neurodivergent trait and I guess those navigating imposter syndrome or navigating change.

[00:20:53] Sheri Jay: Well, so Lego serious play. I have a number of clients who are neurodivergent who are not that [00:21:00] verbal or think about the executives who are very much in their head and not into their feelings and, and bought. And I discovered Lego Serious play and fell in love with it immediately did the certification first.

Specifically that pers purpose to coach individuals who are neurodivergent. But when I took the certification, I realized. In a group or team, it levels the playing field from janitor to CEO, neurodivergent to neurotypical, extrovert, introvert, everyone has a voice and so you're letting your fingers do the talking.

And when you're building you have insights, but then when you, when you describe your build, you're having insights upon insights. So it's this incredibly effective way to go inside and I've. The first, first time I used it with a, a young man who's neurodivergent in his twenties. He said, I just discovered feelings I never knew I had.

So people in my, uh, [00:22:00] experience, people who I've coached, whether they're neurodivergent or neurotypical, it's just this, um. Really exciting way to uncover things. So I, it's, it's the same coaching that I, I do verbally, but we build, so you build Lego, start with what is, what's your current challenge today?

And then what if wave a magic wand if you could have it any way you wanted. So again, solution focused. Okay. And then we go from there. That's, and sometimes my neuroscience tools, when we talk about people being really stressed, one tool I use often is the just right life. So people are often in too much like way too much stress, which in it, uh, their cognitive function is not.

Perfect. Right? When you're in flow, you're cognitive, you're hitting all your marks. You know what that flow feels like. But when you're in too much, you can't function properly. And so with Lego, we can build the too much life, the too little life, and then the [00:23:00] just right life, which is where you want to be.

So this is actual Lego sets or is it something specialized? Well, it's Lego. Yes. So it's from Lego. This is, uh, trademarked by Lego. Okay. Like serious play. They were losing market share to Barbie and GI Joe way back when, which is hard to believe. And the executive sat down with Lego and figured out how to save the company, which they obviously did really well.

And then they trademarked the, the coaching modality. And so they have, they're called Explorer Discovery bags, and they're just little bags. And everybody gets the same bag of Lego and a base plate. And then you build. And the other wonderful thing is you end up with an artifact. So I say this, you know, you go to a training, you go to a workshop, you're all motivated, you're jazzed, and you walk away and you forget everything, right?

The next day it's like gone. You're back to your daily grind. But when you walk away with this piece of Lego, you never forget what you learned. 

[00:23:58] Mary Lee: Exactly. Yeah. It's a [00:24:00] living model to improve. You look at it every day, say, ah, yes. So what do your clients build? Like can you build to spread anything like, I dunno, something from Star?

[00:24:13] Sheri Jay: Well, any, any. It's what the client brings. So I actually was just in Vancouver and I had a Lego series play for a culture club. And so they asked me to create a coaching, uh, workshop around different cultures. Everybody came, you know, Denmark, Holland, different countries bringing their culture into today.

And what did. The end result at the end of the hour was connection community. Everybody wanted to bring the connection and community they had from their culture into their present life. I it, so it depends on what the client wants and then we create, whether it's a workshop or one-on-one, create the questions.

But same Lego kit, different builds. [00:25:00] 

[00:25:00] Mary Lee: They can build anything that they want to within their imagination, or is there like a set design? 

[00:25:08] Sheri Jay: Well, they build anything within their imagination based on the, their goal. But I always say. Build for a maximum of five minutes, because if someone is a perfectionist, they're gonna wanna build for 20 minutes.

And I also, you have, you know, let's say 60 Lego blocks and no more, because if you're a perfectionist, you might wanna build for 20 minutes and use 300. So there's no right or wrong in Lego. Oh, that's, and you can let that go. Actually, I've coached people who have perfectionism with ligo and then, and they feel it's like, oh, I can let that go.

I just filled for five minutes. What? I should put that into every other part of my life. Give myself a time limit and not, because if you have perfectionism, you're, you've, you, it's almost like you have a wall and all this doesn't get [00:26:00] done because you're so afraid of making a mistake. So in, and in my coaching, I learn fail forward.

'cause the more you fail, the more you learn and the more progress you're making when you can learn to embrace making mistakes. That's part of learning. And when we're children, we fall on the ground and we jump up and we don't, we don't judge ourselves, but as adults we judge ourselves. That's so 

[00:26:23] Mary Lee: true, 

[00:26:23] Sheri Jay: and 

[00:26:24] Mary Lee: that ties back in with, again, the imposter syndrome or all eyes are on me because I'm holding this position of authority or of importance.

All eyes are on me. I, there's no room for failure. And certainly coming from a military background yeah, that, that can do attitude and you better not fail. 

[00:26:41] Sheri Jay: So that's, that is our brain getting in our way, right? So when we can identify when our brain is getting in our way, learn tools to move forward and past it, then we can use our brain as our superpower versus our [00:27:00] kryptonite.

[00:27:01] Mary Lee: That is so good. Oh wow. And of course, we know that perfectionism is a trauma response. In so many ways, and I think women circle women that I have come across now, that is a common trait flaw, if you will, that we are always striving for yet another, another. Learning journey. Another course, another something more to learn because I'm not quite there.

I'll be, I'll be accepted, I'll be an expert. I can be perfect at my, my craft, my trade, my vocation if I just get some more credentials behind me. And we're always chasing after something that, and you can explain, it's probably inherently there all the time, but we somehow have silenced that. That voice, that inner child that's always known all along what we're destined for.

[00:27:56] Sheri Jay: Yeah. Yeah. Synchronicity when we [00:28:00] figure out what, what we're destined for, and when we can accept who we are, we have, and we ha we have a negative bias. And that is a survival mechanism. Right. If we go back to when lions and tigers and we were in the wild, we had stress. Was there for a respon a, a reason so that we could survive.

But when that stress response is amplified, whether it's perfectionism, you know, negative self-talk, perfection, all of those things, that stress is outta control. So that's when we're in that too much space, 

[00:28:33] Mary Lee: right? 

[00:28:34] Sheri Jay: And so to learn what's happening in our body and we need stress, the right amount of stress to get things done.

So figuring out that. Place, which is letting go of that negative self-talk and replacing it with positive self-talk, increasing our self-confidence, we can then move forward. 

[00:28:55] Mary Lee: So how do corporations. I guess this is for individuals too. How do [00:29:00] they know that they need to take on this training? How do they know that they need a Sheri Jay to come into their corporation?

To give them the tools, the skill sets, to be able to overcome some of their issues, whether it's collectively as the corporation or the individual trying to move forward and excel in their career or their, their, um, athletic endeavors. 

[00:29:23] Sheri Jay: Well, you used the word courage earlier in our conversation. Mm-hmm.

So what it is, is whether you're an individual or a team, if you're frustrated or stuck I have, I dunno if you've ever heard of the seven levels of effectiveness, but when you're in a negative space, which is, you know, fear, frustration, um, hopelessness, courage is the first positive step. And so when you have the courage to realize, okay, I'm stuck in the same space and I'm not getting anywhere, you have the courage to work with someone who's like a third party ear to help you get up to a [00:30:00] positive emotion, positive action.

That's when you're ready. 

[00:30:05] Mary Lee: Interesting. All right. So, also one of the things that struck me on your website too is what you call and make, make sure that I have the name right, the principles, you personality assessment. Can you share more about that and how it supports your client's growth? 

[00:30:24] Sheri Jay: Sure. Well, first I'll tell the story of why I picked that assessment.

Yes. I had a client, an adult client who had autism, and she had been asked, or she did an EQI assessment and I was asked as her coach to sit in silently when she was debriefed. So I, I silent partner and then she and I could work on anything that came up in future coaching sessions and. And most people who, who are neurodivergent have higher anxiety than the rest of the population for what I, I mentioned before and they brought up the coach who debriefed [00:31:00] her said that, you know, what did you notice when you took the assessment?

And she said, it didn't take my neurodiversity into a count. And the woman just. Fine. Blew that off. The assessment results came up and it was very left to right, which my client took. As you know, I'm a loser. I'm a failure. I'm all on the left hand side, right? There was nothing in the middle. There's nothing on the right.

The coach would ask 30, 40 word questions and my client would completely lose the gist of the, and say, could you please repeat that? So when you, you need to have short questions. Very short and it, my client went into complete anxiety attack and it was horrible. I walked away from that looking for an assessment that was empowering for everybody.

And I looked everywhere and I found Principles U which happens. One of the, one of the creators is Dr. Adam Grant, who I've already mentioned and I respect, and Ray Dalio who had [00:32:00] the, um, Bridgewater and Dr. Brian Little and I, it's very inclusive. And there's it's. All these islands of archetypes and it's very empowering and there's no weakness.

It's growth areas and strength and so, and whether you're at one end or the other, there's strengths to each, for all the traits. So let's say introvert, extrovert, there's a, there's. There's positive and all, and that's why I picked it. So I use this with clients as it's a place to start getting to know yourself because in the coaching journey, really what you're doing, it's a journey of self-discovery and change, and it's a starting point to figure out what you wanna change, what you don't, what you're happy with, and.

I often use this in, oh, first one, two or three conversations. We'll do this assessment and then teams that are stuck. It's a great way to have a conversation, to have traits without. Pointing fingers. [00:33:00] It's like, here I am on, on the spectrum and here you are, and this is what I need when I work with people and this is what I need.

It's a way to have an open conversation. And also in regards to diversity. If you plot, let's say your executive team of 10, and everyone's always in the same place and there's nobody on the other end of the spectrum or in the middle. It's like our team, a great team isn't made up of 10. Exactly the same individuals.

You need all the different traits. To make a good team. And that's what I love about Principles U 'cause it shows you all of that and it shows. So it shows you the you, the us, and the culture. So I would 

[00:33:37] Mary Lee: imagine first for the individual, it probably creates a sense of acceptance and empathy or compassion for oneself better.

Yes. Getting to know yourself a little bit better, perhaps even for the first time. 

[00:33:52] Sheri Jay: So when I did my training, I reached out to HR professionals, 10 different HR professionals [00:34:00] to sort of practice with, and all of them came back to me saying, we've done every assessment, you know, out there. And people walk around at such and such an office with sort of Meyers Brigg initials on their, their name tag.

Like, we're over this. And every single one of them said, wow, this one's different. And one gentleman said All the traits. For my whole life that I was embarrassed about. By doing this assessment, I realized they're to be celebrated and I'm a good human being. 

[00:34:31] Mary Lee: Oh, that is so beautiful. Yeah. That is so beautiful in the workplace then, and with corporate teams.

I would imagine then this is the ultimate of seek first to understand before being understood. You'll understand now why your executive assistant, she or he may do things a certain way and you're a type A personality and they're more methodical, maybe introverted, but they're exactly who you want to pick up.

The small details [00:35:00] like your spelling errors for example, but is it they arrive at a place where. Oh, now I understand why you do what you do or are the way you are at work. 

[00:35:14] Sheri Jay: Yes, exactly. And Lego Serious Play does that as well. I just coached an executive team on values and vision where they walked outta the session one, realizing they thought they were all at odds, that they had been, they have the same.

Values and vision but had been using different language. The Lego helped them see that, but also the building of the Lego understanding. They're like, I didn't know that about my the other executive, but watching them build Lego and how they sort their Lego makes me understand how they need to work.

Beautiful. I would imagine my, 

[00:35:51] Mary Lee: my mind is just racing now. Have you ever worked with, or could there be an, an opportunity to work with [00:36:00] town councils and municipalities? 

[00:36:04] Sheri Jay: I have not, but I know other Lego serious facilitators who have, yes. 

[00:36:09] Mary Lee: Oh, wow. Because, you know, we, we often. See a lot of bureaucracy slow things down when it comes, especially in towns where we need to see change and growth and developments.

New ideas are coming fast and furious. Our communities are growing fast and furious and we just feel like, oh, if this, their counselors could just learn to get along. Yeah, that would be quite amazing. Would be quite amazing. Yes. So now in your own personal journey, when you started this work, was this where were you, I'm curious on your menopausal transition and has your line of work really helped shaped or assisted in your transition?

[00:36:54] Sheri Jay: Well, interesting question. So, when I started the, when I signed up for the [00:37:00] life coaching, it was at 7:00 PM at night, Tuesdays and Thursdays, and I was so tired and mentally fatigued. I thought, I can't do this. Like I, how am I gonna do this? The first few classes, it was virtual. I actually turned the camera off and laid on the floor.

But what it helped me do is reactivate my brain and energy. So I would say on the menopausal journey I was at, I was towards the end of it. Oh, okay. Yeah. But it, it, one the passion and purpose and two, like going into these classes, I'd been in the forest for 20 years with dogs and I had a brain injury and I had not used computers.

And then 19 other people in my class were HR professionals who knew to how to use Jamboard and you know, all these things I'd never heard of. But I created the neural pathways and the energy 'cause I'm passionate [00:38:00] about it. 

[00:38:01] Mary Lee: Wow. Yes. Well, it definitely shines through. So for somebody who's curious to start working with you, what would be the first step for them to take, to explore what it would be to work with your co, your unique coaching program?

Where should they begin? 

[00:38:17] Sheri Jay: Well, they would begin by, uh, setting up a discovery call. So I, I have a complimentary discovery call where we can look at what the logistics are, uh, have a sample of my coaching because not everyone's gonna jive with me and I'm not gonna jive with, with everyone, right? So, if. I think they're served by someone else better.

I would refer them. So we'd have a complimentary coaching session. If it's a corporation, it would be talking about what they're, where they're stuck and what their goals are and what would be best, you know, principles, U principles, US Lego serious play. Yeah, that's where it would begin. 

[00:38:57] Mary Lee: Yes. Well, we'll make sure that we get your [00:39:00] website link in the show notes for sure.

But there's an interesting area that you do work in. You haven't mentioned it yet, so I'll bring it up. You volunteer coach for up with women whose mandate is to help women and diverse gender individuals rebuild careers after violence, homelessness. And tell us all about that work you're doing.

[00:39:23] Sheri Jay: Well, and I have four volunteer gigs. Okay. It's really important to give back. Yeah. So I volunteer I coach of aspiring Canadian cyclist. I do team coaching once a month with Bridge the Gap. They help bridge the gap between amateur and pro and I but up with women is really important to me and I co, I coach people who are neurodivergent.

So I specifically ask for clients who are neurodivergent and these women are dealing with, some of them are [00:40:00] homeless, some of them are housing insecure. Income insecure, and the objective is to get them to be secure in those areas. The woman who founded this is Neurodivergent herself and was homeless at 16.

Oh my. So she started this in Toronto and they now coach across the country. There's coaches across the country and clients across the country. And so once a year I have a new client. And we work together twice a month for 12 months. And yeah, it's near and dear to my heart, and I also coach with, it's a, it's a, it's a, an American organization coaching us vets.

Military vet. So my father career military, I grew up on military bases. As you know, I have lots of friends who are career military. Um, and that's also really important to me, and again, my clients are, are neurodivergent. Transitioning from the military into [00:41:00] civilian life. Oh my goodness, 

[00:41:02] Mary Lee: that Sheri could be an entire episode all in its own neurodivergency in the military.

That's such a, you think like two things couldn't be more opposite. Right. And that is definitely one area where you have to learn how to mask and hide. 

[00:41:18] Sheri Jay: Yeah. Na, NASA knows the value of people who are neurodivergent and they love hiring people who are neurodivergent. So that's interesting too, isn't it?

[00:41:28] Mary Lee: Yeah, very interesting. And yet, you know, when you, when you sign up, you have your assessments, it's all cookie cutter, uh, that you have to fit this mold. And so those traits that you might have, that you've learned to deal with or may not even understood what you had, and you become a little bit of an outlier, so you learn how to fit back in that bell curve and mm-hmm.

Like I had said earlier, when you have the change of life, all of a sudden that masking doesn't work anymore. But I would imagine that there's been a [00:42:00] real acceptance now and an awareness of that diversity, inclusiveness, quality, that everyone who comes to the table and can perform no matter what their personality or their neuro division trait is a valuable asset to the organization.

Absolutely. Have you seen that shift having a military background yourself, being in company of a lot of friends who, military background as you've mentioned, has that, have you seen that shift come full circle where we are now at the end of more of an acceptance? 

[00:42:34] Sheri Jay: Well, it depends who you're talking to.

Okay. So yes, on, on one hand, yes, there's much more of an acceptance, but of course, you know, in the states, sadly a whole bunch of the DEIA programs have been cut. But I, I'm gonna say overall. In the world. There's more of an acceptance and understanding. And in the DEIA space, diversity, equity, inclusion, and [00:43:00] accessibility, there's a new term and that's belonging.

And I think that's the most important one, is belonging. Wow. That is beautiful. 

[00:43:08] Mary Lee: And you are certainly doing wonderful work to help individuals and corporations adopt that, that mindset. This is incredible work you're doing, Sheri, and I'm so glad that we haphazardly met on the street. Another fun fact, as we got talking, we realized that we have a mutual friend and that would be Laurie, and that's who I worked with at the start of earlier on in my.

Her transition into public affairs. I worked with Lori and um, she helped me get into the branch actually. And lo and behold, I learned that you and Lori grew up together. CFB Trenton. 

[00:43:46] Sheri Jay: We grew up together at CFB Trenton. We ran track together in high school. We both applied to the military together at the same time.

We were both accepted and she went and I did not. Wow. And now here we are, [00:44:00] full 

[00:44:00] Mary Lee: circle and the work you're doing is exactly where you were meant to be. That was your calling. And we are grateful that you followed it took you a while, but we all do that. We It's never linear path. It's that crazy zigzag.

Exactly. That is to where we're supposed to be. Sheri, what is one thing that. Listeners can do right now just to help them, uh, where wherever they might be at in their transition, be it in their transition or just kind of dealing with their neurodivergent traits or maybe even a head injury. Okay. Oops. I found this on the web for, what is one thing that listeners, my, 

[00:44:41] Sheri Jay: my phone thought when I said Sheri, I was saying I have a dog named, uh, Gracie, who I call Goo, and Google thinks I'm talking to it all the time. When I say goo get it, the one thing I would say is, what do you want instead? So if you're feeling stuck and frustrated, [00:45:00] and instead of focusing on the negative, focus on what you want instead. So go back to the visioning and and just vision what you want instead.

That's beautiful. 

[00:45:12] Mary Lee: Yeah. 

[00:45:13] Sheri Jay: And whether, and I, I love, whether it's Lego collage, journaling, you know, watercolor, I feel like creativity and making it visual, even Canva, all of that helps bring it to life. So go create it creatively and that makes it a little bit more real. And then you might start taking those steps one at a time to get there.

[00:45:38] Mary Lee: Yeah. 

[00:45:38] Sheri Jay: Could also reveal to 

[00:45:39] Mary Lee: us something that we were, should always have been chasing and we, we suppressed it. Yeah. Have that childlike spirit as Robert Green says in mastery, get back to your childlike spirit. Go play. Go find yourself. 

[00:45:52] Sheri Jay: Play. So there's seven keys to neuroplasticity creating new neuro pathways.

And one of those is, is play humor and [00:46:00] movement. So. I would say almost all my clients, when it comes down to it, they're looking for more joy and happiness. But we all are taking, you know, this moment so seriously. One another question I might ask is, you know, if you're at your hundredth birthday party and you could, you walked in and you heard everybody talking about you, what would you hear them saying?

'cause that often tells us what we should be doing, right. What we want to be doing. So, um. Play humor and movement. This moment doesn't have to be so tough and serious. It can also be joyful and we want our lives to be joyful. 

[00:46:40] Mary Lee: Oh, well, I'm full with Joy Sheri, that we connected. We had this conversation. I am so grateful for your, your work and that I have the platform for which I can spread that knowledge and tell our listeners where they can find you.

Thank you so much, Mary. All right, we'll get your link in the show [00:47:00] notes. Thank you again, Sheri. My pleasure. 

Great conversation with Sheri. Sheri and I actually met haphazardly. She was walking down my street with a dog. She had been visiting her dad and I had my grand puppy, Lenny, a little long-haired dash out. Super cute. And lo and behold, we struck up a lovely conversation because, you know, dogs collide that that often happens.

When I learned about the work that Sheri was doing, I had told her that my podcast episodes in the past regarding PTSD, neurodivergent traits, A DHD, they all seem to be garnering a lot of attention and how wonderful it would be to have her on the show because of her skill sets as a life coach, and in particular with a focus on these key areas.

You have heard me say this a million [00:48:00] times. Menopause is the time of the great reveal. These things will come to surface. So this conversation was really fitting. It fits in with the trends I'm seeing the popularity and the podcast topics. Certainly it fits in with what I've been sharing about Ayurvedic principles around menopause.

So many impactful, positive, powerful moments that Sheri had shared. And here's a quick summary of my key takeaways. First, I think Sheri's story's amazing. She went from high powered corporate job. Many of us have done that through a life changing brain injury and ended up building a coaching practice that's all about helping neurodivergent people thrive.

I love that. As I always say too, our mess is our message. Her story's a real reminder that life isn't a straight line, and sometimes the detours lead us exactly where we're meant to be. Uh, we talked a lot about menopause. And bringing up nerve divergent traits like a [00:49:00] DHD autism. And if you have had a concussion, certainly during the ltil phase you can be symptomatic for a lot longer.

And then of course, with the hormonal shifts during menopause, lovely things happen. And that's certainly an experience of mine. And so. We go through years of trying to fit in, mask, hide, pretend, shoveled away. But I just think that is quite wild. How many women are getting a diagnosed later in life and how menopause does make those traits absolutely impossible to ignore.

It's like screaming at you. Deal with me. Pay attention to me. I think it's a beautiful invitation also to go deeper and get to really know who you are. And Sheri's approach to coaching is so compassionate. She really meets people where they are at and helps 'em move forward no matter how fast or slow the process is.

I love the point about how play movement and creativity aren't just for kids. They're, they're key to building new pathways in our brains and finding more joy even when things are [00:50:00] tough. One thing that struck me, if you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed, try focusing on what you want instead of what's not working.

Get creative journal doodle play. Tap into your childlike spirit. Tap into what is ever coming up. Lean into your intuition. Quit that job. Find a new passion. I'm speaking from personal truth, but always remember this. It takes courage to make a change, and that's always the first step. The biggest, boldest step.

Honestly, this episode felt like a big permission slip to be kinder to ourselves, embrace our quirks, and just find joy wherever we can.