Unapologetic Workplace Leadership and Power with Nicole Johnston

In this episode, Mary is joined by Nicole Johnston, an executive and leadership coach, TEDx speaker, author, and founder of Innate Power, to explore workplace leadership, visibility, confidence, and the often-unspoken challenges women face during menopause.

Nicole draws on 30 years of experience in major consumer brands including Procter & Gamble, Kimberly-Clark, Hershey, and Newell Brands, where she witnessed women being diminished, sidelined, and overlooked despite their experience and capabilities. She now helps women understand the unwritten rules of corporate environments, communicate their value, build stronger personal brands, and step into leadership without shrinking themselves.

The conversation explores why women can be over-mentored but under-sponsored, how an “Atta Girl” folder can protect their accomplishments and strengthen career conversations, and why personal brand is ultimately shaped by how other people perceive your value.

Nicole also discusses menopause in the workplace, the importance of removing shame from the conversation, asking for support, and giving yourself permission to use new tools and strategies when your needs change. She shares how openly acknowledging brain fog helped her maintain credibility rather than hide what was happening.

Connect:

• Innate Power  on Instagram— Nicole Johnston's leadership coaching and professional work.

Resource:

• Taboo Topics: Things Women Should Talk About But Don't — Nicole Johnston's book, available in hardcover, paperback, and audio formats.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Nicole Johnston: At some point, I know I'm gonna forget something because of brain fog. And every single time it happens, I'm just like, "Give me a minute. This is menopause brain fog. I'll be back in a second." And then I come back. But I announce it that way every single time, because the less sensitive we make it, the more accountability we get and the more credibility we get, versus like, "Oh my God, oh my God," and scurrying away.

[00:00:27] Mary Lee: Welcome back, awesome people, beautiful listeners. Another episode at the Menopause Disruptor Podcast, and this conversation is something that I think so many women experience in midlife but don't always have the words for. Knowing you're capable of more while simultaneously questioning who you've become and what you actually want.

My next guest is Nicole Johnston, an executive and leadership coach, TEDx speaker, author, and founder of Innate Power.

Nicole spent two decades in senior corporate leadership working with some of the world's biggest consumer brands, including Procter & Gamble, Hershey, Kimberly-Clark, and Newell Brands. She knows firsthand what it takes to succeed inside high-pressure corporate environments, and perhaps more importantly, what it can cost us when success comes at the expense of authenticity.

In this conversation, we focus on how women can protect and advance their careers during menopause rather than allowing symptoms, stigma, or workplace bias to make them play small.

Nicole has drawn on 30 years in big companies where she has witnessed and experienced women being sidelined or quietly disappearing from organizations. And today, Nicole helps ambitious professional women become more visible, communicate their value, navigate workplace dynamics, and step into leadership in a way that feels genuinely aligned with who they are.

And she has some really clever tips to succeed, such as the Atta Girl File, which we'll get into. Nicole is also the author of Taboo Topics: Things Women Should Talk About But Don't, which feels particularly relevant to this podcast because so many of the conversations women need to have, especially as we move through midlife, are still so very uncomfortable, inconvenient, or simply not being talked about. And that's what I find fascinating about this stage of life. Menopause doesn't necessarily create all the questions we're suddenly asking. Sometimes it's simply giving us the courage or removing our ability to ignore it. Questions like, "Who am I? What do I actually want? And where have I been making myself small?" Nicole's central message to the listeners is this. You are amazing. You have enormous power, and you still have so much to give, to try, and to become. And so look at this. Midlife's Deeper promotion may just well be removing self-imposed limits and bringing your full self forward without requiring anyone's approval.

I am so excited to dive into this with you as we explore confidence, visibility, authenticity, leadership, and those unwritten rules of workplace ethics, as well as what happens when women stop waiting to be recognized and start owning their innate power. Please join me in welcoming Nicole to the Menopause Disruptor Podcast. 

[00:03:52] Mary: Welcome, Nicole Johnston, to the Menopause Disruptor Podcast. I'm so happy to have you here and talk about a subject near and dear to me: career women. Nicole, welcome to the show.

[00:04:05] Nicole Johnston: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here because career women, and especially the menopausal force of career women, is something that definitely needs some attention.

[00:04:14] Mary: It does. And a lot of us have gone through this strange pivot where we find ourselves feeling less than, whether it's in our head or there are clear and definitive signs all around us that we're no longer viewed as the same quality and caliber. We're gonna get into that. But first, take the listeners back, Nicole, to your story.

[00:04:37] Mary: How did you go from entrepreneurialship and working for big corporations to finally deciding that you wanted to transition into more of coaching and reframing the experience for other career women?

[00:04:50] Nicole Johnston: I spent 30 years working for some consumer products companies that you all have stuff in your houses from, Procter & Gamble, Kimberly-Clark, Hershey, and I saw time and time again women being diminished, sidelined, stuck, not able to fulfill their full potential, and then just the quiet disappearance that happened with some of the more tenured women.

[00:05:17] Nicole Johnston: And I was in a lot of the, quote-unquote, "room where it happens," where I saw and heard the discussions, and I saw and heard what was being talked about and how people were being talked about. And I decided that rather than continuing to be in the corporate machine, I wanted to leave and help women understand what the discussions actually were, what they needed to be aware of, what they should be doing, should not be doing, you know, all of that secret sauce that's not really talked about.

[00:05:49] Nicole Johnston: Because when you are the head of sales, and you don't like sales, that's not awesome. What I loved was helping people thrive, but I didn't love sales, and so stepping back from that so I could focus on just the parts I love is how I got there.

[00:06:05] Mary: That's amazing. I'm really curious, what are those things that are being said behind those closed doors we're outside earshot?

[00:06:12] Nicole Johnston: Well, I think probably one of the biggest ones that women don't understand is the need for sponsorship. Let's step back for a second and do some definitions so we're all on the same page. There are three roles that women need to have supporting them. First of all is a coach, and a coach is someone who talks with you, meaning, "I'm having a problem with this client.

[00:06:33] Nicole Johnston: I'm not quite sure how to get this through, and I keep getting this," da da da da. The coach is gonna walk you through how you can solve it. You're gonna be playing back and forth and figuring out together what the solution is. So the coach talks with you. A mentor talks to you. So for example, when I started full time, both my parents were teachers, and so, like, on the weekend I had a business dinner.

[00:06:56] Nicole Johnston: I did not know what a business dinner was. My parents didn't have business dinners. They were teachers. So I called my mentor, and I'm like, "What's a business dinner? What do I do? What do I wear?" What... You know, all the questions, because I didn't know, and my mentor is like, "You do this. You wear that. You only have one glass of wine.

[00:07:12] Nicole Johnston: If they go out drinking afterwards, do not go." And she was very specific on it, and it was like, "Yes, ma'am. Thank you. That's exactly what I needed." She spoke to me. It was just one-way information. The third one is your sponsor, and your sponsor talks for you. So, when the room is having the discussions about the opportunity, the project, the promotion, whatever, there needs to be a voice in that room advocating for you.

[00:07:41] Nicole Johnston: So if the opportunity comes up, your sponsor says, "You know what? Nicole would be perfect for that because of X." And if you don't have that sponsorship voice, you get left behind, and disproportionately women are over-mentored, people telling them what to do, but under-sponsored, meaning they don't have that voice in the room where it happens.

[00:08:04] Mary: Right. And can that sponsor... So I'm thinking back to a lot of career positions I held and a lot of the common jobs, whether it's in education, healthcare, government,

[00:08:14] Mary: And those conversations are coming around the executive team is getting together to decide on promotions, assignments of great tasks and, and jobs. Are a lot of those sponsors merely just peers?

[00:08:28] Nicole Johnston: No, A sponsor is rarely going to be your peer. A sponsor is usually going to be higher than you in the organization, and the challenge about sponsorship is it has to be somebody who's worked with you. So, meaning you could have been in their direct line, you could have worked with them on a project, you could have worked with them in a DEI group, but they have seen your work, and because of that, they can advocate for you.

[00:08:54] Nicole Johnston: The issue is a lot of times women have someone that could be a sponsor for them, but they don't cultivate the relationship because they don't know that it needs to be cultivated with the idea of that person speaking for them

[00:09:08] Mary: Okay. Not a lot of us are gonna have that advantage when it comes time to have those discussions. How else can a woman, if she doesn't have that sponsor herself in her job, in her career field, whilst managing menopause symptoms, how can she better position herself so that she wouldn't be passed over, overlooked, and just sent out to pasture, if you

[00:09:34] Mary: will? 

[00:09:34] Nicole Johnston: Yes, the lovely pasture. Um, the most important thing is building your Atta Girl folder, and this is what I mean. Somebody says, "Great job on X," throw it in your Atta Girl folder. Somebody sends you a Slack message that says, "Oh my gosh, you saved my bacon," Atta Girl folder. The project that you just finished the recap- Atta Girl folder.

[00:09:53] Nicole Johnston: Because one of the great annoyances about menopause is brain fog. So when it comes time to write your annual review, you're like, "Oh my God, what did I do for the past year?" And you can't remember, and instead, you just go to your Atta Girl folder and go, "Oh yeah, I did a whole bunch of stuff. Look at all that."

[00:10:12] Nicole Johnston: So this does a couple of things. One, it does a great job of keeping track to help you on reviews, those kinds of things. But also, if you notice, for example, you're always getting called out for your great analytics, but you're never getting called out for your problem-solving, your communication, your whatever it is, that is a way for you to say, "Okay, clearly they know I can do X, but I have to demonstrate that I can do Y in order to advance."

[00:10:41] Nicole Johnston: And so it's a really good temperature check of what you're known for, what you're getting solved, those kinds of things, and it makes it a much more robust discussion in your annual review about your development of, "Hey, last year you told me to focus on analytics," use that as the example, "and I got called out by all these people for all my great strides in analytics.

[00:11:03] Nicole Johnston: Now that I've done this, I think the next step that I need to show in order to continue my advancement is Y. How can you help me develop Y?" And so it's a really easy way to be data-based in saying what I've done, how I've responded, and now I need your help to move forward. And it also gives you written records, because we all know there are times where it's he said, she said, "Oh, I did that."

[00:11:31] Nicole Johnston: "No, I did that." You have an entire folder now that goes, "Oh, no, no, no. Let me show you all that I did."

[00:11:38] Mary: Right,

[00:11:39] Nicole Johnston: Someone getting credit for what you did.

[00:11:42] Mary: Right. And at the same time, it demonstrates that you have made use of opportunities and advances, and requested to be shown opportunities to improve or opportunities to develop those skills. You can say, "So you've either passed me over, or you didn't respond to these requests."

[00:12:03] Nicole Johnston: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:04] Mary: But it shows your initiative.

[00:12:06] Nicole Johnston: Right. And all it takes is a little bit of organization because you're getting those notes anyway, you're putting the recaps anyway, and you're just putting them in another folder. And, you know, you go say something at a meeting, and afterwards someone says, "Hey, that was a really good point you raised.

[00:12:20] Nicole Johnston: That's the first time I've heard it phrased that way." Go write it in your note icon or your note app on your iPhone or whatever. Take a note: "On this day, Mary told me I did X well." You then have contemporaneous information that can go back when someone says, "Well, I never said you did that." Actually, you did on this date.

[00:12:39] Mary: Mm-hmm. Wow. Yes.

[00:12:42] Nicole Johnston: Your Atta Girl folder is amazing.

[00:12:44] Mary: I've never heard of an Atta Girl folder. Wish I had when I was in corporate. Could have saved my bacon many a time, or at least helped

[00:12:53] Nicole Johnston: Absolutely. 

[00:12:54] Mary: When the brain fog kicked in. Let's talk about that, though. Women often feel like their menopause symptoms in the workplace are not serious enough or are not being taken seriously, or they themselves are just shrugging it off in fear of being out, fear of reprisal. What exactly is taking place at the emotional and even nervous system level when women just sort of slough it off and try to just go along and completely deny their right to have these experiences that are natural with the menopause transition?

[00:13:29] Nicole Johnston: Well, for, you know, it's Gen X who's in menopause right now. That's the generation that's in it, and, you know, the millennials aren't quite there yet, and the boomers are all out of it. And for every generation before us, they had to swallow everything. I mean, think about it from just the most basic perspective.

[00:13:47] Nicole Johnston: Gen X is the first generation of women to have full legal control of their finances. Prior to Gen X, you couldn't get a bank account, a credit card, or a home loan without a male cosigner. I was two years old when the last law was enacted guaranteeing and codifying that financial freedom. So the generations before us didn't have a say in anything.

[00:14:12] Nicole Johnston: They couldn't, I mean, the most basic thing of finances, they couldn't do anything, so they swallowed everything. And that's where periods are disgusting, and oh my God, and, you know, all of those kinds of things. It came from the whole shame cycle of trying to put women in a little box to keep them away.

[00:14:30] Nicole Johnston: And so Gen X, where we start having legal control, we start being able to advocate for ourselves, there was an overwhelming desire to still try to shove us back in a box. You throw like a girl, all that kinda stupid stuff. But there has been the pushback and the recognition that no, that's not okay.

[00:14:52] Nicole Johnston: And, you know, God bless Gen m- the millennials and Gen Zs and Gen Alpha coming after us because they're all like, "Oh my gosh, what is wrong with you?" When people start to do that. We are kinda the last generation that is still hearing that kind of comment and not immediately calling it out for being wrong.

[00:15:10] Nicole Johnston: So we're getting better at it, but now that we're in menopause, you have people like Michelle Obama saying, "This is your power." Or like in Japanese, menopause actually means new awakening, and it's not viewed as a bad thing. And there are so many things out there that are turning the narrative from being crusty old whatever to this is a new phase.

[00:15:33] Nicole Johnston: It is a new superpower. It's a new everything, and the potential that it brings is enormous. Now, that being said, right now there's one state, I believe it's Rhode Island, that has allowances for menopause as part of healthcare, meaning you can take days off for menopause. And then there's Portugal, I think, is the first country that has done it nationally.

[00:15:56] Nicole Johnston: And so there are cracks in the new facade associated with menopause where people are starting to recognize the sheer talent, brain drain, customer knowledge, and expertise that they're willing to let walk out the door because a woman's having a hot flash. And they're recognizing this is a self-limiting prophecy of the profitability, stability, longevity, and loyalty to their businesses.

[00:16:26] Mary: So powerfully said, Nicole. So powerfully said. If more women heard that anthem,

[00:16:34] Mary: marched to that anthem, and sung those praises when she went into work, wherever that might be, every day, knowing that they were at a, a precipice of major change, but they have to be a player in that change, I think that would shift things.

[00:16:49] Mary: Because the women I'm still working with feel as though their power is still diminished; their power still has to be handed over to this patriarchal system that's created this narrative, this language. And

[00:17:03] Nicole Johnston: Single company I work with, at some point I know I'm gonna forget something because of brain fog. And every single time it happens, I just like, "Give me a minute. This is menopause brain fog. I'll be back in a second." And then I come back. But I announce it that way every single time, because the less sensitive we make it, the more accountability we get and the more credibility we get, versus like, "Oh my God, oh my God," and scurrying away.

[00:17:32] Nicole Johnston: Let's recognize it. A friend of mine, when she was going through menopause, she literally would walk into every meeting and set a personal fan in front of her and just sit there, and the fan would be blowing on her the entire time. And someone, one time, this young man's like, "What the... What is that about?"

[00:17:47] Nicole Johnston: And she looks at him and says, "Menopause." And he was like, "Uh, y- y..." And he just looked at her, and he said, "I feel like I should be quiet now." She's like, "Probably wise," and goes back to the meeting. But she wasn't looking for permission. She wasn't looking for approval. This is what it is, and if you want me here giving you all of my knowledge, I'm gonna have my fan on.

[00:18:08] Mary: That's beautiful. I love that. So empowering. And yet that sting of embarrassment still to be so forthright. How important then is it that within the workplace there be a peer network of support?

[00:18:22] Mary: Your colleague, somebody you might sit next to in your cubicle or be on the, the front line with, whomever, that is there for peer support, or even if it's a small network of people you could turn to in the office, in the corporation, to and say, "This is what's happening.

[00:18:39] Mary: How do I work through it?" Let's talk about how peer support networks can really shift

[00:18:45] Nicole Johnston: Yeah. I wanna make one comment about the shame comment that you made, and then I'll get to peer support if that's okay.

[00:18:51] Mary: Absolutely.

[00:18:52] Nicole Johnston: The thing about menopause, menstruation, all of that, is that because it is tied to reproductive organs, there is the shame cycle associated with sex. If you said, "I have a bum elbow," no one was going to be like, "She said elbow."

[00:19:13] Nicole Johnston: But if you say, "I'm in menopause," that means you got a bum uterus at this point. And for some reason we allow that shame to propagate. It's just a body part, no more, no less. And if we can take away the sexual aspect of it and think of it as literally just a body part, it makes it that much easier to recognize it's just a thing.

[00:19:39] Nicole Johnston: And so that's one of the things I talk about in my book is that in infertility, so many times women are shamed because something that should just work. Well, would you say that about your knee? About your neck? No. But because this is a body part associated with our female fertility, there's something wrong.

[00:19:56] Nicole Johnston: No, it's just a body part that doesn't work. So taking the shame cycle out of it is really important. Now, going to the peer piece of it, I remember I would've been, let me do math, 44. I was at a meeting, and there were two other women in the meeting. One of them was the head of HR, who was running the meeting, and then there was another woman who was leading a big portion of it.

[00:20:22] Nicole Johnston: And, during a break, I was talking to them, and the head of HR asked me, she's like, "What's going on?" I'm like, "I have had... I don't know what it is, but when I turned 42, my cramps decided to go into overdrive, and today the cramps are crampin'." And she looked at me, and she's like, "Gotcha." And that was all she said, but the rest of the meeting she made it so that I didn't have to do any incremental work.

[00:20:45] Nicole Johnston: I didn't have to stand up and take notes. I didn't have to do anything else. I didn't ask her for that, but she knew because I mentioned that I was not doing great, that she was gonna help me out. That was the first time in my career where I actively stated a need, and I didn't even recognize I was stating it, and I got support.

[00:21:04] Nicole Johnston: And this is after I had worked in the feminine care category for years. But in the past, up until that point, I didn't have bad periods. I didn't have bad cramps. It didn't really bug me. So I was like, okay. But that moment made me recognize how often, if we just had each other's backs, we could make things infinitely better.

[00:21:27] Nicole Johnston: You know, on the days where you are flashing, or you are having a brain fog, or you are having whatever issue it is for you, if you have someone who's got your back, it flows. It's covered, and it's that much less, "I'm on my own in this devil's island." Instead, there's more helping.

[00:21:47] Mary: Yeah. Yes. And then let's talk about the education piece too, because bringing in better, more compassionate understanding of the menopause cycle or the menopause transition, educating peers, educating the leadership, even educating subordinates that work under you- how valuable is that, in today's businesses where retention, recruitment, even reputation are all hinging on how you treat your brand ambassadors, your people.

[00:22:22] Mary: To take time, if you take time for harassment and bullying policies, how important is it to have menopause education, and even having policies that accommodate and support that?

[00:22:35] Nicole Johnston: I think it's critical, and especially because there is so much, I don't know, mystery around menopause that people think they know what it is, but they don't, and they have just…There are really weird, random ideas out in the world about menopause. And so I think getting everybody to have that understanding matters.

[00:22:56] Nicole Johnston: And now I know I am more direct than a lot of women, and they would be like, "Oh my God, I could never." Well, that's okay. I understand that. Just recognize that by choosing not to share- and I'm not saying share every single detail of what's going on, but by limiting what a big part of your life is- it makes it harder for your team to engage and trust you.

[00:23:21] Nicole Johnston: And so like in my last corporate job, I was smack dab in perimenopause, and I mean, I guess technically I'm still in Perimenopause 'cause I haven't gone the full year without my period, and I just felt dumb because the brain fog was fierce. And I had to tell my team, I'm like, "Listen, guys. Don't know if you know anything about Menopause, but I am starting it, and brain fog is a big part of that, and that means I'm forgetting words, I'm forgetting data, I'm forgetting things.

[00:23:51] Nicole Johnston: It comes back to me, but at the moment, there are times I forget." Like for example, this morning I couldn't remember the word for toes, so I called them fingers on my feet. It happens. And I said, "But I just need a little grace from you guys when that happens. And if I get something wrong, help me out. Let me know.

[00:24:09] Nicole Johnston: But just know that it's a weird time for me, and I'm doing my best, and I appreciate grace from you guys." And I remember the women kind of looked at me like, "Huh?" And the guys were like, "Okay, I don't know what to do with this." But then I was on a customer call with one of the guys and I flat out blanked on something I was supposed to say.

[00:24:30] Nicole Johnston: I looked at the customer, I looked at him, and I said, "I'm sorry. I'm having brain fog." And I looked at him, I was like, "What's the stat?" And he told me. I'm like, "Great. Thank you." And I went right back into it. And the buyer afterwards said, "You know, that was pretty cool." I'm like, "It is what it is, and I'm not gonna hide it and fake it and be able to try to come up with some BS excuse. I'd rather just be like, 'This is what it is.'" 

[00:24:51] Mary: It is. And that comes with a certain amount of confidence. Confidence to be able to just say what it is, speak your truth, and acknowledge it rather than try to hide. 'Cause when we try to hide from it, it just makes matters worse.

[00:25:08] Nicole Johnston: Well, it does, and then it also perpetuates the lack of education, the lack of understanding, the lack of anything. And there is so much hemorrhaging of top talent that started in the pandemic and has continued. And your women who are in their early 50s, late 40s, they are the backbone of many organizations.

[00:25:33] Nicole Johnston: And if you're just gonna let them go because you can't be bothered to think about maybe they need something different, shame on you.

[00:25:42] Mary: Oh, so powerful. Some of the work that you do, though, you spend a lot of time helping women develop what is called their personal brand. I'd love to get into that with you, Nicole. Tell us exactly what a woman's personal brand is and how she develops it. We think brand is something we would post on our social media profile, but what does it actually mean?

[00:26:06] Nicole Johnston: Well, let's go back to the attagirl folder.

[00:26:08] Mary: Yes.

[00:26:09] Nicole Johnston: What do you hear? What is being told to you? Is your personal brand "you get s*** done"? Is your personal brand that you empower people? Is it personal... What is told to you that you are good at? So while I might want to say that my personal brand is blah blah blah, if I receive the feedback that says, "No, it's actually this," as much as I might want it to be blah blah blah, my personal brand is what people tell me it is.

[00:26:40] Nicole Johnston: And so the personal brand is the perception others have of you, who you are, what you bring, what your value is. Now, the biggest challenge is that what your personal brand is as an individual contributor has to shift when you want to become a people manager, and it shifts again when the size of the group of people you lead changes.

[00:27:06] Nicole Johnston: If you're leading one or two people, it's one thing. If you're leading a team, it's another. If you're leading a group, it's another. If you're leading a function, it's another. If you're leading an organization, it's another. And so your brand has to change and grow as you're making these changes. But what happens is too often women really put their head down, focus on their tasks, and just assume that people know what they're doing, and they don't.

[00:27:34] Nicole Johnston: So instead of your personal brand being this dynamic thinker, this problem solver, this ability to connect with clients, you're the person in the corner doing tasks, and promotions aren't based on your ability to complete tasks. Promotions are based on the perception of your leadership potential, and if you're not demonstrating that potential, you become a pro in place, and you never move past that role.

[00:28:03] Mary: That is really powerful. You know, one of the ways I used to phrase it when I was doing corporate PR for so long and helping companies and organizations shape their brand was who you are, what you do, and why you do it. And Simon Sinek actually says start with that why.

[00:28:25] Nicole Johnston: Yep.

[00:28:25] Nicole Johnston: But too often people think what it is versus what it actually is are not the same. And that's why understanding what people play back to you tells you what your brand actually is.

[00:28:40] Mary: So that probably speaks more to values, what a person values. 

[00:28:44] Nicole Johnston: Not necessarily what a person values, but what a person perceives. Because if you think, for example, these analytics that you're doing are showing all your really creative problem-solving and ability to get to solutions and everything else, but because you never talk about it, what people perceive is that you're good at code.

[00:29:06] Mary: Oh.

[00:29:08] Nicole Johnston: So it's nothing to do with values.

[00:29:09] Nicole Johnston: It's the perception of your work versus what you're trying to communicate. And if you're not actively communicating that vision, that perception, that breakthrough, people are gonna take it down to the lowest common denominator.

[00:29:25] Mary: Yeah. She can get shit done, but what does that mean? Yeah.

[00:29:28] Nicole Johnston: Yeah.

[00:29:29] Mary: So if someone, a woman, walks into you, into work today, tomorrow, whatever, or you're coaching with them, wants to start building this strong leadership perception of where they can potentially go, should they begin?

[00:29:44] Nicole Johnston: Sorry, but I'm gonna be repetitive. Start with your Atta Girl folder. Start with your feedback. What do you get told you're good at? Because that is the base from which you're going to spring. Meaning, if you're told, I'm gonna use the analytics example again, you're good at analytics. Okay, the next time the opportunity comes up where you do the analytics, prepare the presentation, and someone else is gonna present it, say, "You know what?

[00:30:08] Nicole Johnston: I haven't gotten a chance to present this for a while. I would like to present this one." "Uh, but I always present it." "I know. So this time I'm gonna help you do the analytics so you can get better at that part, and I'm gonna present so I can get better at that."

[00:30:21] Mary: Yes.

[00:30:22] Nicole Johnston: And so you start from what you're good at and then branch, and start to build and add, and you shift the conversation away from the lowest common denominator of, "I guess she can code," to, "Wow, she's got really innovative thinking on this.

[00:30:38] Nicole Johnston: Wow, this is really disruptive data that can help us do X, Y, Z. Wow." You're going to shift that to the wow conversation versus the, "Yeah, she's good at code."

[00:30:48] Mary: Yes. You know, one thing that I do want to point out with, and this happened in my experience, and it goes almost hand-in-hand with the brain fog, is the loss of confidence in who we once were. And so those are areas where we should be speaking up and being more forthright, but with the brain fog, and you explained it, just have the confidence to call it out for what it is. For those who are struggling with the "I just don't know who I am anymore," and it spills over into how they present themselves at work, can't put a word on it, and can't really explain it to their colleagues, or are too afraid to, so they go quiet. They don't start being more forthright in demonstrating their initiative to take great ideas and put them forth or think out-of-the-box kind of thing. 'Cause there's that moment, several months, where that is completely gone, and they play small.

[00:31:51] Nicole Johnston: Yep.

[00:31:51] Mary: What great advice can you give when women start doing that—playing small?

[00:31:55] Nicole Johnston: You need to accept that menopause is going to be a series of adopting new things. And here's what I mean. If you're having sex, you're gonna start using a lot of lube. Never used it before in your life, now you're using lube. If you are going to work, you're gonna start wearing a lot of shells because the, you know, jacket on, jacket off happens a lot.

[00:32:17] Nicole Johnston: It means having a fan at your desk. If you're going to present where you've never needed notes in the past, now you're gonna have notes. And so you have to give yourself permission to be okay to have different aids, to have different help, to have different ways of doing things that, well, I've never needed that before.

[00:32:38] Nicole Johnston: Okay. And you didn't need biotin to grow your hair before, but now you do, you know? It's not ... There's nothing against you. It's just age. Are you mad that you need reading glasses now? I mean, no, it's just another aid. And figure out what that system of aids and help is that will bring you back to where you had more confidence.

[00:33:02] Nicole Johnston: And so it's not bad. It's not wrong. It's just giving yourself permission to do things differently.

[00:33:08] Mary: Yeah. So in other words, the confidence is lost when we feel like there are no more tools in the toolbox, but

[00:33:13] Mary: we haven't yet explored or felt it was okay to introduce those tools no matter where we were at or

[00:33:20] Nicole Johnston: Yeah.

[00:33:20] Mary: in the workplace.

[00:33:22] Nicole Johnston: And there's a whole section of the store with tools you just didn't know were there.

[00:33:25] Mary: Yeah. 'Cause we never talked about it, because

[00:33:28] Nicole Johnston: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:33:30] Mary: 'Cause it was too taboo. Which brings me to your book. Your book is called Taboo Topics. What was the inspiration to write it, and what topics were most surprising for you?

[00:33:45] Nicole Johnston: My book is different than a lot of books in that there are 24 chapters, and each chapter is its own topic. Because one of the things I hate is that I'm a voracious reader; I read everything. I read business books, I read biographies, I read vampire romance. I don't care, I'll read it. And one of my biggest pet peeves with business books is that I read a business book that does a fantastic job of breaking out the problem and gives you absolutely no way to address it.

[00:34:14] Nicole Johnston: None. So then I need to find a book to solve the problem, and it's like this never-ending process of trying to get to where I wanna go. And so when I wrote this, I wanted to have every topic have actionable things that you could do that were easy to apply and take easy next steps. So like in the chapter where I'm talking about personal finances and asking for a raise, there's an email template in here to tell you how to ask for a raise.

[00:34:39] Nicole Johnston: You know, I'm trying to make this as easy as possible because I don't wanna sit here and say, "You should ask for a raise and here's, you know, things you should consider," and then leave.

[00:34:48] Mary: Never.

[00:34:48] Nicole Johnston: Because people are like, "Okay, but I don't know how." There's a template. You know, and on things about other parts of this I'm very specific.

[00:34:56] Nicole Johnston: There's... When I gave this to my parents to pre-read, I'm like, "There's a chapter in here where I talk extensively about lube. Just accept it and move on." And they were like, "Okay." You know, and it's just I wanted to help people recognize there are solutions to things and it's not some mysterious stuff, but rather it's just practical knowledge that if we shared it, oh my gosh, we'd be unstoppable.

[00:35:20] Nicole Johnston: And so there's that. There's also the fact that I love random information. You absolutely want me on your trivia team. And I have had a lot of people say to me, "You should write a book." And so I took them seriously, and I wrote it. And so the topics are—some are work, some are personal—but it's all designed to think about how if we take away some of the stigma, if we take away some of the mystery, that we can all just function better.

[00:35:47] Mary: Yeah, all those conversations that we wish we could have or feel out of place if we initiate them ourselves, you know, such as sexism, burnout, perfectionism. My God.

[00:35:57] Nicole Johnston: Yes, exactly.

[00:35:58] Mary: Of course, all those menopause symptoms, financial stress. I really am impressed that we bring that into the equation because this has very much impacted a career, can... Our career demise can end our financial stability quite quickly. So we really have to be thinking about this.

[00:36:17] Nicole Johnston: Well, and there are so many women who don't understand the financial levers that they have, because only one-third of women fully max out their contributions from their employer when it comes to their retirement, their vacation, you know, all that kind of stuff. Only one-third, which to me is horrifying.

[00:36:36] Nicole Johnston: That's free money you're leaving behind. And so because again, before Gen X, women didn't talk about money, largely because they couldn't, that information isn't shared. So like when I started working for Procter & Gamble, you had a retirement option of a 401, which I didn't know what that was, or savings bonds.

[00:36:54] Nicole Johnston: And I was like, "Well, I know what savings bonds are, so I'll invest in savings bonds."

[00:36:58] Nicole Johnston: Could that have been a worse choice? No, really not. And so it took me years to make up for that. Or the fact that if you don't negotiate your first job offer out of college, it basically costs you a million dollars in your lifetime.

[00:37:11] Nicole Johnston: A million. And statistically, women are far less likely to negotiate than men. And so it's those kinds of pieces of information that I'm trying to demystify so that people know that they have to ask, that they have to do the things, that they need to get every single dollar that they can from their employer, all of those kinds of things.

[00:37:33] Mary: Yeah. Taking agency

[00:37:34] Nicole Johnston: Yes.

[00:37:35] Mary: on our behalf,

[00:37:36] Nicole Johnston: Yep.

[00:37:37] Mary: and not hoping that somebody's gonna do it for us. We're, we're figuring it out. Gen X are figuring it out on their own 'cause they didn't have the guidance and the mentorship from our own mothers.

[00:37:50] Nicole Johnston: No, 'cause we were feral. We didn't get any of that.

[00:37:52] Mary: Here we go. Here we go. Well said. Wow. So tell us all about the book, where readers can, where our listeners can find it.

[00:38:01] Nicole Johnston: Well, you can find it anywhere books are sold, honestly. And it's available in hard copy, paperback, and also audio. So depending on however you like to take your books, you can find it.

[00:38:11] Mary: Wonderful. Nicole, I will get all those details in the show notes. I do have some rapid-fire questions to

[00:38:18] Mary: leave with a little bit more spiciness from Nicole Johnston and some final reflections. So for you, I've got a series of statements. You're gonna finish the sentences.

[00:38:30] Nicole Johnston: Okay.

[00:38:30] Mary: Are you ready?

[00:38:32] Nicole Johnston: I think so.

[00:38:33] Mary: First one, success is...

[00:38:36] Nicole Johnston: Happiness.

[00:38:37] Mary: Beautiful. Courage is

[00:38:41] Nicole Johnston: Happiness.

[00:38:43] Mary: Wow. Wow, I like that. Women need less of

[00:38:50] Nicole Johnston: patriarchy.

[00:38:53] Mary: Yes. Need more of

[00:38:57] Nicole Johnston: self-love.

[00:38:59] Mary: Oh, yes. My biggest lesson was

[00:39:06] Nicole Johnston: Perfection is the enemy of good.

[00:39:09] Mary: Wow. Wanna care to elaborate a little bit on that one?

[00:39:15] Nicole Johnston: Girls are socialized to be perfect, to get the gold star, to do everything right. And when you set that expectation for yourself, you take yourself out of so many opportunities, and it doesn't matter if it's looking silly on the dance floor or trying something at work. When you expect perfection, you are never going to allow yourself to try, and boys are socialized to try.

[00:39:42] Nicole Johnston: And when they fail, they laugh about it and try again, and girls aren't socialized that way, so we take ourselves out of so many things that we could absolutely thrive with

[00:39:53] Mary: Oh, that is so true. I think there's probably not a dry eye for the listeners right now when they hear this—nodding their head, "Yep, yep," carrying on. I wish every woman knew like

[00:40:09] Nicole Johnston: their innate power.

[00:40:12] Mary: Hence the name of your business.

[00:40:14] Nicole Johnston: Yes.

[00:40:16] Mary: Leadership starts when?

[00:40:19] Nicole Johnston: You wake up.

[00:40:22] Mary: Wow.

[00:40:23] Nicole Johnston: Leadership is habits, and when you choose to make good choices for yourself, for others around you, they're habits. And there are women who, while they've gone far, they never built good habits, and they struggle, and they work 80 hours, and they're passing on their trauma to the women behind them, and they are not doing the things that they should.

[00:40:47] Nicole Johnston: It's built on your choices and your habits. So when you wake up is when leadership starts.

[00:40:52] Mary: Wonderful. I recently heard a beautiful intention. It's, wake up and do the things that bring excitement in your heart,

[00:41:02] Nicole Johnston: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:02] Mary: The day, and go to bed with peace in your mind.

[00:41:07] Nicole Johnston: Absolutely.

[00:41:08] Mary: Such a beautiful summary right there. Next one: The best career advice I ever received...

[00:41:16] Nicole Johnston: Oh, that's a big 'un. Um, I think it's "be kind."

[00:41:20] Nicole Johnston: We have a lot of leaders who try to be nice. Being nice is not helpful. Being kind is, because being kind gives the hard truths, it gives the tough discussions, but it does it from the lens of care. So I would 99 times out of 100 pick a kind boss over a nice boss.

[00:41:39] Mary: Beautiful. If every woman listening to today's conversation could remember just one thing from this conversation, a couple weeks, maybe even six months from now, Nicole, what would you hope that to be?

[00:41:52] Nicole Johnston: That you're amazing. That you have so much to give, to do, to love, to hold, to try, to fail, to do something. You are amazing. And just believe in your power because holy buckets, it is huge.

[00:42:12] Mary: That is. You know, we spend a lot of time talking about this conversation around career women.

[00:42:18] Mary: In the context of those who are fighting for a promotion or trying to still feel and represent themselves the

[00:42:25] Mary: best they can. But it's not just necessarily about being in the workplace because women, let's face it, they're the CEO of their homestead.

[00:42:34] Nicole Johnston: Yep. Yep

[00:42:35] Mary: In the context of this in the workplace, do you think that the greatest promotion women receive in midlife isn't necessarily gonna be that one at work, but into becoming something else?

[00:42:46] Nicole Johnston: I think it's gonna depend on the woman, but I think it is the point where women take the blinders off, take the governors off the engine, take this, you know, any limitation they've put on themselves, the zero Fs to give point. But it's when they recognize their knowledge, their strength, their power, their passion, their talents, their skills, and they bring their full self, and they're okay if someone else doesn't like that because they don't care.

[00:43:20] Nicole Johnston: But that, it can be at work, it can be at home, it can be at your church, it could be in Girl Scouts, it could be wherever you want it to be. But it's the idea that you are enough, and you are amazing. Just let everyone see it.

[00:43:36] Mary: Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, we certainly got to see the amazing part of Nicole Johnston. This has been a wonderful conversation. We could talk more at great length. I am so glad that you came to the Menopause Disruptor Podcast to share your experiences, your book, and your sage advice. I think it's gonna touch a lot of women. So thank you for your energy and, um, just being here.

[00:44:01] Nicole Johnston: Thank you so much. This was a wonderful discussion, and necessary. Talk about it, women. We need to talk about it.

[00:44:07] Mary: We need to, yes, start. We break down those barriers one conversation at a time. We'll get all of those links in the show notes for where they can find you, your business, Innate Power, and your book. Thank you again, Nicole.

[00:44:18] Nicole Johnston: Thank you.

[00:44:19] Mary:  What a powerful conversation with Nicole Johnston. I mean, she had quotable quotes throughout this entire conversation, and I hope that you took away a lot.

But here's a wrap-up of the big things I took away. First of all, Nicole reminded us that thriving in our careers, especially through menopause, isn't about hiding what we're experiencing or pushing through it. In fact, the days of pushing through are over. No. In fact, it's about recognizing our value, advocating for what we need, and allowing ourselves to work differently

I love this, there are three people every woman needs in her corner. a coach who talks with her, a mentor who talks to her, and a sponsor who speaks on her behalf in the rooms where decisions are being made. I would have loved to have my own sponsor. But now that I've put on the coaching hat, I absolutely have to agree with her.

That coach is that cheerleader in the corner, your biggest fan. See, they talk with you. They help you along your journey, and 

 As a menopause doula as my coaching role. I'm there with you. I help you unpack difficult conversations with your doctor, with your family members, with your colleagues at work, and with yourself.

And unpacking all the literature and the mystery around menopause so that you can have the right information and feel empowered to make your own health decisions. This was my biggest one, though. Start with your attagirl folder. Wow. Again, could've used that.

So what does that mean? Save compliments, feedback, successful report recaps, projects you've worked on anything, evidence of your impact, save it. Will help you advocate for yourself, help understand what you're known for, and shape the personal brand that you take with you to every opportunity.

Nicole also reminded us that menopause may require new tools. Practical tools like taking more notes for brain fog and cognitive function challenges, uh, having a little fan by your side, wearing layers, 

Extra support can also mean accommodations like having a breakout room or a cooling room where you can go to, to just down-regulate the nervous system, cool off, let the emotions or a hot flash ride through, where you can quietly and safely and confidently take a moment to yourself, even if it's just to meditate or breathe and to regroup And one of the biggest tools is simply to have more grace for yourself.

But you have to understand, as Nicole says, it isn't weakness to use these tools, it is adaptation. And perhaps one of the most important takeaways for all of us is that perfection is the enemy of good. I'm gonna add to that, comparison is the thief of joy. Give yourself permission to try, to fail, to learn, and also to be seen. Don't compare your success or your journey with anybody else's.

 That can lead to self-deprecating conversations about yourself to yourself and about your worth, and it also diminishes your worth. Remember, as Nicole reminded us, you are not past your prime, so don't treat yourself that way. In fact, you are at the peak of your prime, and you have a lot to give.

You're experienced, powerful, and capable, and so much more. Take off the blinders. Release those limitations you're putting on yourself, and let people see everything you have to offer

Thank you so much for joining Nicole and I today on the Menopause Disruptor Podcast.